To reduce clutter and low-quality threads about China I'm going to start anchoring threads and redirecting to here instead. If the subject is important enough to warrant a separate thread (let's say, a thread discussing maoism) then feel free to do so.
Post last edited at
First for Deng. Communism by 2050
New Cultural Revolution soon, watch out Dengoids
>corraling all discussion of the world's largest Socialist state into a single thread
What is this imperialism?
CHINA MUST GROW LARGER!
>not supporting Deng
>CHINA MUST GROW LARGER
We will live in prosperity!
>implying there will be an earth in 2050
praise xi fuck mao
The rock itself will be fine. The parasites on it's surface are all damned to hell.
Mao literally had him thrown in prison and called him a rightist wrecker.
Why? The only thing Deng changed is style of reforms.
Instead of the sweeping and radical decrees - testing them out small-scale and going from there.
Not a single thing he did was a policy he came up with himself during his tenure.
Go home, Gang of Four, you were shot
Too bad Deng wasn’t.
Not his fault he was a materialist and not an idealist
Was Stalin an idealist?
do you have the Ismail /china/ reading list? anyone?
I don't. He always recommends this book though
>If you don't do everything like Stalin you're a capitalist roader
Ultra-left deviationists. All of you.
I didn’t suggest that. The point is that Stalin developed the productive forces without resorting to capitalism. Also resorting to capitalism (like Deng did) makes you a capitalist roader.
Stalin's government was very good. Macroeconomy was very good. Country rose from destruction of WW1 and civil war became second largest economy in the world with powerful industry, strong purchasing power, advanced science, high life expectancy,high birthrate and young,large educated population.
Problem is that Brezhnev era has proven that at certain point Stalinist model of economy that is focus on heavy full state control of the economy factories is not sustainable. Grasping the large, letting go of the small is perfect solution.
The Soviets were able to do that because the material realities in Russia at the time were different from China.
China in 1949 had less industry than Russia had in 1917 or even 1922 (For sources ill have to check my pdfs - I don't have them right here). For reference; when Chinese troops crossed into Korea, they weren't capable of producing even a single tank.
Likewise, they didn't have access to the world's largest reserves of energy resources. And what they did have, they had to share with more people.
From a foreign relations standpoint China was worse off than Russia after their respective civil wars ended: Unlike the USSR, there were were no nearby (willing) trading partners; China was a pariah and effectively under embargo, with most of the world only recognizing the ROC; Not that they had much to export, as China was even more impoverished than Russia.
For years they were able to secure a trickle of aid from the USSR - which itself was recovering from the fascist invasion, which had destroyed up to 70% of the urban areas west of the Urals.
Then, following the Sino-Soviet split the supply of Soviet investment and expertise dried up, and they were effectively on their own, only being recognized by the US in [b]1979.[/b]
This was also during the aftermath of the cultural revolution, which had upended China's fragile academia, and from which they were just beginning to recover.
It's against this backdrop that Deng and his allies decided to push for reforms that would let western investments and technology develop and modernize China.
>Using BB code on a mongolian basket weaving forum
This stupid joke only works on half chan because half chan is rip of japanese websites and was originally created for anime discussio. 8chan is ripp of reddit and was designed so that boards would be created by users, rather than any specific threads like anime in hafl chans case.
This stupid joke only works on half chan because half chan is rip of japanese websites and was originally created for anime discussio. 8chan is ripp of reddit and was designed so that boards would be created by users, rather than any specific threads like anime in hafl chans case.
Not saying this holds true for Deng but pointing at the fact he served in the Communist Party for a long time is a pretty weak defense, seeing as plenty of people who turned into opportunists and class traitors throughout the history of socialism had been involved for a long time prior to that.
Maybe, but Deng was member of communist party for thirty years before it took power in China. As did many other members of Chinese politburo during Deg's time, some even participated in the long march, and third of them including Deng studied communism in Moscow.
And so did Den'gs successor.
Point is that, since most of these people actually fought for communism and studied it excessively I am inclined to somewhat trust them.
>8meme isn't run by a jap
Jim Watkins is not jap
I understand the course of action Deng took from a rational standpoint but China is clearly not socialist, come on now.
So ahh what the fuck do they even do there? Do they have workplace democracy on any of their industries?
Nice screenshot. Here's some additional evidence.
Alright here is a book called the battle for china's past about the Mao era and the two propaganda machines that are against it. Another book I haven't read yet but want to, and an article about the rate of profit in China as compared to the US and Japan.
Chuang is a good website to read although they don't post too often. I should say I'm also learning Chinese although I started not too long ago so I'm very much a newbie. Even though China is capitalist I still would love to work there.
Also I'm currently watching the film Mardi Gras: Made in China which is very sad so far. I watched A Touch of Sin last weekend, it was pretty good. A Touch of Sin can be pirated but Mardi Gras I could only find on Amazon.
I'm sure this thread will have a lot of BASED XI vs China is capitalist banter. I really don't understand Ismail's stance at all, he plainly admits there is a bourgeoisie, commodity production, labor market, reserve army of labor, private utilities, rich people in the CCP, etc, but still insists they are socialist. The Losurdo article I've seen referenced is literally neo-lib tier bs about markets being necessary for developing, China is in NEP, and a blatantly anti-marxist conception of "political capital" opposed to economic capital. Just because the government leases the land the businesses exploit workers on means its socialist? I don't see the logic.
Not to mention China's shitty foreign policy going back to the Vietnam war and the absolutely crucial role they play in sustaining global capitalism. Again, even if they are somehow deserving of the label socialist, they are responsible for providing the capitalists with massive amounts of cheap labor which they use for profits and selling cheap shit to placate the masses.
Also, nothing in Antiduhring, Critique of the Gotha Programme, Wages Price and Profit, or any other theory I've read offers a criteria of socialism that China even remotely fits. (Other than Leninist government with commie aesthetics.) Also The Governance of China has no value whatsoever
It has a capitalist economy in many spheres but to talk about “Chinese neoliberalism” as some Western Marxists like David Harvey is just asinine. I would say that China is something beyond even the semi-Georgist total industrial capitalism that Marx theorized as at least a possibility. True, Marx saw measures like state-control over land/rent as a likely necessity for capitalism to develop industrial agriculture to its utmost perfection but on the other hand, China has massive and significant social investment and planning.
There isn’t a Western government that handles investment in that way most OECD countries have 90% of the investment done by private entities. Hence, Michael Roberts points out the uselessness of Keynesianism in the aftermath of post-Keynesian studies showing how investment rather than consumption drives economies. The government can never spend enough, it can never cut enough gibs checks necessary to power an economy out of a dry spell while keeping production and investment in private hands. Quite frankly, the massive success that China has had should lead us to claim that socialism deserves at least some credit for it.
There is no real comparable political economy to what China has in the present world. Even when Keynesians talk about how Keynes “considered” socialized investment in a scattered way it was never more than pure theory. He also praised Hayek’s “The Road to Serfdom” which would give some indication of where his real theoretical proclivities laid.
I don’t think that China has yet even reached the lower-stage of communism in its most primitive phase but to think that there isn’t an underlying socialist structural element in their economy is just ultra-left dogmatism. China would be more properly called an actual mixed economy instead of the capitalist welfare states that Western economists try to pass off as mixed economies when all the evidence flies in the face of that.
>>2782285 (me again)
So you guys don't have to pick through the book, here are some interesting quotes:
>According to a Chinese official report (Yang Tao 2007), in a couple of years a large number of state-owned enterprises have been transferred to private owners. Many of the enterprise owners are actually state employers holding government managerial and professional positions, and the proportion of this group of enterprise owners rose from 33.8 per cent of the total in 2004 to 67.4 per cent in 2006. This huge transfer of wealth from the state to the private sector, unprecedented in human history and carried through quietly and almost unnoticed, has been largely beneficial to those who hold political power and have connections with the establishment. >According to one report, which claims to be based on official
research done jointly by the Research Office of the State Council, the Research Office of the Central Party School and the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, 90 per cent of the more than 3,000 billionaires in China are the so-called ‘princelings’, sons and daughters of high-ranking party officials (Boxun 2006a).
>When the mode of production is transformed, that is, when the
means of production are no longer publicly owned and when workers are no longer supposed to be the owners of these properties, the relationship between the trade unions and the state then become antagonistic. Deng saw clearly what the problems would be. So in 1980 he ordered the abolition of the Four Big Freedoms. In 1982 when the Chinese Constitution was amended, the clause of the Four Big Freedoms, together with the freedom to strike, was stricken out (Hu 2004).
>During the SARS epidemic the Minister of Health was sacked and a policy of investing more in rural China was declared. To implement this new policy ‘the iron lady’, Vice-Premier Wu Yi, was assigned to act as health minister. Five billion RMB was allocated to implement preventive health measures in rural China. However, all of that money was eventually used in county and urban centres instead. It turned out that rural health clinics and facilities had all been privatized. The Ministry of Health, under Wu Yi, had no idea of how to allocate funding from the central government to private health businesses in rural China.
>>2782282 (all me)
>My research in the Gao Village area in the past two decades and
my recent research in Long Bow Village suggest that many rural
people think that even if China had retained its collective system they would have had the same kind of living standard as they have now.
>Wang Jinhong, who served as the Party Secretary of Long Bow
Village from 1966 to 2003, had no doubt this when I interviewed him
in February 2005. He had built a huge and comfortable two-story
house during the 1980s, but he insisted that he would have done the same if Maoist policies had continued.
>According to one research study in Henan province, some rural
people actually think they could have done even better, and for
everyone. The survey was carried out in a county that had above
average living standards at the time of research in 2000. Among the 200 questionnaires returned (out of 208), only 11 per cent agreed that living standards had gone up a lot since the reforms. In contrast, 55 per cent of the respondents thought that their standards of living had not gone up much, 11.5 per cent felt they had not risen at all, and 22.5 per cent stated that they were worse off since the reforms (Zhuo Yi 2003). Similarly, 41.5 per cent of them stated both that their living standard would have been more or less the same and the societal habits and customs (shehui fenqi) would have been much better if Maoist policies had continued. About 90 per cent of the respondents thought that in terms
of healthcare, agricultural mechanization, irrigation improvement and technical innovation, reform policies have made the situation worse.
>The fact that rural Chinese did not possess this or that consumer
good in the past was not the fault of Mao, they would argue. The fact that they do have them now is not to Deng’s credit either, they would say. Some of these consumer goods were not even invented then. The fact that grain yields are higher now than those during the era of Mao was not because they had no incentive to work hard then, as suggested by economic rationalists. The land yields more now because chemicals are used more extensively and intensively.
>As late as 1982, the then Premier Zhao Ziyang
(1982: 1260) declared that the socialist transformation of rural China into a collective system was necessary and absolutely correct. But a year later in 1983 the CCP issued a command to dismantle the collective system, ordered the rural organizations to change the collectivist name of commune to xiang (township – a term used in pre-1949 China) and distribute land among households even though many were opposed to this. Some resisted the pressure, and there are still around 2,000 villages that have kept the collective system; these include Liu Village and Nanjie in Henan, Huaxi in Jiangsu, Daqiu in Tianjin, Henhe and Doudian in Beijing, Zhouzhuang, Banbidian in Hebei, Honglin in Hubei, Houshi in Dalian, Yankou and Ronggui in Guangdong, Tengtou and Wanhai in Zhejiang
I'm trying to contribute as much as I can to this thread because I think it's a very important subject and is very interesting to me, and I'm genuinely curious what Dengists have to say.
Yeah I definitely don't agree with people who call the PRC a neoliberal hellhole, but these are quantitative differences. The fact that their loans to African countries are easier to pay off is the result of market competition, they can use that to undercut Western investors and gain a foothold where there wasn't one before. Same with the credit expansions, when the entire capitalist world goes into crisis, when you have a centralized authority like the CPC which is able to act rationally (unlike western countries which have competing bourgeois interests which stall the government at crucial times) they can respond to crises in a way that lets them come out stronger. Also, yes I agree that there is an underlying element, due to the remnants of the Mao era and the people in the country who are still struggling to advance class struggle.
Also the notion of developing the productive forces is textbook revisionism at best and capitalist roading at worst.
>but these are quantitative differences.
I would say they are qualitative as well, of course, China is better off than some pro-Western neo-liberal kleptocratic Third World state but nominal wages are certainly worse than developed countries like Britain and the US that have long-standing neoliberal policy regimes. You brought up the fact that Chinese business-owners lease land from the government, for instance, although it was a popular idea in the 19th century I am not aware of any Western government that owns a major part or a majority of commercially-leased land. Singapore and possibly Hong Kong are the only Western-aligned states that I know of that even come close to the ideal of classical political economy in seeking a capitalist system that seeks to minimize ground-rent.
> The fact that their loans to African countries are easier to pay off is the result of market competition,
Hoxha made similar arguments regarding Soviet and Chinese social-imperialism–I think this point broadly holds true.
On the other hand, I think there are aspects of the Leninist theory of Imperialism that maybe questionable. Generally, bank loans are less profitable than industrial enterprise, in fact, Marx defined profit of enterprise as gross-profit minus interest. I've thought many ways about it and a pure economic financial imperialism can exist in this sense.
Although a pure financial imperialism can exist I'm too tired to layout a thought experiment for it here in the main its practical political function is to break down barriers to trade, fdi, and profit expatriation.
A real world example: Germany only has one international bank of any significance (Deutsche Bank) the US government under both Obama and Trump have hit it with fines partially for wrong-doing and partially in a shadow trade-war between the two countries. It seems to me that control over currency and sovereign debt are the main weapons of German financial imperialism but these things are mainly tools to ensure big profits to big industrial firms via massive export-drives and not to line the pockets of bankers.
Chinese "imperialism" probably acts in a similar manner. But whether monopoly firms behave and operate in the way that Lenin theorized is unclear–Marx and Engels themselves are astonishingly vague on this point. Likewise, it isn't clear that small firms/medium firms are innocent of the charge of imperialism but I'm a bit too tired to get into that.
Lenin's empirical case was actually quite good in his time: https://www.gc.cuny.edu/CUNY_GC/media/CUNY-Graduate-Center/PDF/Centers/LIS/imperialism_forcirculation_3.pdf
But, what parts still apply is unclear. The biggest financial imperialists today (US, Britain) are actually net capital-importers. Third world kleptocrats for instance use the banking systems of both countries to store their ill-gotten gains away from the prying eyes and fingers of their own people. Detrimental as it maybe it isn't financial imperialism of the type that Lenin described. To my knowledge, China does not behave in this manner on a significant scale. Even the off-shore system in Hong Kong is an artifact of British colonialism still integrated into the British financial "spider-web"
Mainland China, ironically, imports capital from Hong Kong.
>who is codemonkey
codemonkey is asian, but not Japanese, is he? I allways believed he is malaysian bourg kid or something like that
What is socialism and what is Marxism? We were not quite clear about this in the past. Marxism attaches utmost importance to developing the productive forces. We have said that socialism is the primary stage of communism and that at the advanced stage the principle of from each according to his ability and to each according to his needs will be applied. This calls for highly developed productive forces and an overwhelming abundance of material wealth. Therefore, the fundamental task for the socialist stage is to develop the productive forces. The superiority of the socialist system is demonstrated, in the final analysis, by faster and greater development of those forces than under the capitalist system. As they develop, the people's material and cultural life will constantly improve. One of our shortcomings after the founding of the People's Republic was that we didn't pay enough attention to developing the productive forces. Socialism means eliminating poverty. Poverty is not socialism, still less communism.
— Deng Xiaoping, speech discussing Marxist theory at a Central Committee plenum, 30 June 1984
He doesn't explain how socialism is supposed to achieve the development of productive forces, he just says they are developing and calls it socialism. He - and his successors - never bothered to explain the difference of the "primary stage of socialism" and socialism proper, nor did he ever explain if his politics are just another NEP. Everything is see from the Chinese is vague and obsfucating, opens up more questions than answers, maybe deliberately so.
post this in the warsaw pact thread too
Gucci communism is the way of the future.
>A life sciences institute funded by Coca-Cola and other multinational beverage and snack companies even has offices inside the government’s health ministry
> Detrimental as it maybe it isn't financial imperialism of the type that Lenin described.
in later marxist historiography of the post-war period (perhaps even earlier, as i'm not well informed) these would be called the comprador class which are natives that cooperate with the imperial countries to siphon off wealth from their country while taking a class for themselves.
Why doesn't China attempt to make any of their own designer brands?
china has tons of knock offs of every thing. A lot of people only pay for the brand, thought. Marketing is everything.
>New York Times
>not a single single shred of evidence for the relation they keep claiming exists over 2 pages
>anecdots from U.S. lobbying
>"Now, the only thing I have managed to keep as a hobby is
reading, which has become my way of life. Reading invigorates my mind, gives
me inspiration and cultivates my moral force." -Xi Jinping
Just wanted to remind you all to read.
Now we know for certain that he isn’t a Maoist
I don't get the joke
Mao has a quote saying reading too much is bad
You guys realize that quote is terribly taken out of context and it's not really what he meant?
Tell me whatever you want,but I dont see China defeating USA by GDP measures. China's economy today is much less developed relative to Japan's in 1989. It is not easy to compare economies over different periods of time but the best method for me has been to look at per capita GDP (PPP-adjusted) relative to the U.S. In 1989, Japan's per capita GDP was roughly 80% of the U.S. (this would peak two years later at around 85%). In 2015, China's per capita GDP is only roughly one-fifth of the U.S. Even if we ignore the less well-off interior and look at prosperous Guangdong province, its per capita GDP comes out to only around one-third.
If China's economy is less developed than Japan in 1989 how China can overcome USA by today's standarts?
>Tell me whatever you want,but I dont see China defeating USA by GDP measures
But they already did. They're the biggest economy by PPP and on their way to surpass them in nominal GDP. If the US has a crash and China doesn't it could happen within a decade.
The comparison with Japan is nonsensical since China's population is significantly larger. They only need 1/4th of the USA's GDP per capita (nominal) to surpass them.
Furthermore China is very technologically advanced nuclear powered space exploring country. Thank uncle Joe for that.
I forgot mention by nominal but whatever, /leftypol/ respects my personal opinion,right?
This is kind of a known unknown since America seems to be on the verge of shitting the bed.
Have you seen the DOW thread, my nigga?
America IS in the shit rn
Yeah I just mean whether the impact turns out to be 2008 or Great Depression tier remains to be seen. It's not looking good for them though.
I wonder if Trump is such a dumbass that he doesn't realise that the shutdown is going to exacerbate it massively or if he's been told of exactly what's around the corner and intends on going full dictator.
As per Marx: (From German Ideology)
>Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality will have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existence.
China is socialist not because it's some sort of classless utopia, but because it's policies - mainly in the field of economic autarchy, and elevating the living standards of the Chinese people - are vital to abolishing the present state of things.
Without advanced productive forces able to satisfy local demand it's impossible to abolish the key force underlying capitalism; commodity production.
This is in contrast to reactionary states like Russia, the US, the EU, etc. and - nowadays - Brazil which have vested interests in reinforcing the existing global system of economic specialization, finance capital and the exploitation of surplus value. Likewise, each of those states have (With the exception of Brazil until now) - in recent years - handed over control of their respective economies to oligarchs and other capitalist interests, often under the guise of austerity. With detrimental effects to the workers in those countries.
Contrast this to China where the Communist Party not only continues to control the commanding heights of the economy, but has actually expanded this control in recent years. All while livings standards continue to soar, and income inequality (both regional and between rural and urban regions) continues to decrease,
That said, I'm not arguing that everything the CPC does is socialist, or that there is no class conflict and corruption, or that they're somehow altruists and not acting in their own class interests as nomenklatura.
GDP per capita isn't everything. China's economy today has already surpassed Japan (1989) in terms of raw industrial output and infrastructure.
China has extreme unequal development, in that it's coastal regions are roughly on par with the rest of East Asia (bar pollution), but it's rural regions are lagging - sometimes decades - behind the rest of the country.
Do anyone here learn Mandarin?
I have 憂鬱 btw
>actually looking up to China
Is this supposed to be a comedy?
Where we should look up to? R*java?
If everything is shit, then it's shit. You aren't going with this "oh, maybe this one is a bit less shitty" mentality.
but I just started recently
We shouldn't 'look up' to anything or anyone. Rojäva is an example of people organising themselves in a socialist manner based on their conditions. It is what we must all do after the revolution. Socialism in the US would look very different to socialism in Uganda, for example. Rojäva is a great case study and we can see what works and what doesn't, but it doesn't need to be a guide in any sense of the word.
rojava is a great case study in how to carve out a kurdish zion in syria with the aid of the US. it isn't socialist at all
china should in fact be looked up to for opposing imperialism and pulling millions of people out of poverty
>if the US has a crash and China doesn't
Literally not possible with global supply chains
Revolutionary People's Wars my man
China is an authoritarian commie shithole with concentration camps and no free speech
>China past 1976
>the USSR's government was made by Stalin
wow what a useless article that doesn't say anything
Open the pdf, it's 30 pages you dumbo
>Rojäva is an example of people organising themselves in a socialist manner based on their conditions
> Rojäva is a great case study
Cant tell you are serious or not
bump to remind people to stop making separate chinese threads
They think the guy who let Vietnam become communist would stop china from doing so?
I have to see anyone adequately explain to me what's so bad about commodity production in socialist states.
It's more than just commodity production, the point of socialism is that labor isn't a commodity and production is done according to need instead of exchange. If China's commodity production was limited to shit like video games then it wouldn't matter, but it isn't limited. I guess its the problem of a quantitative change becoming a qualitative one - some people think the commanding heights meme and one party rule means they are still socialist
This. That dwarf is a prime example of reactionary revisionism
>we will not do to chairman Mao what Krushchev did to Stalin
Right. Instead of talking down on him he and his friends fell for the exact sugar coated bullets Mao warned china about and completely abandoned even the tiniest socialist policies and went full fascist instead. They "honor" Mao by doing the exact oposite of what he and communists wanted but without blaming him for anything to keep themselves legitimate
Chinese Scientist May Face Death Penalty in China for Gene-Editing Babies
>The scientist who edited the genes of embryos implanted in a patient via IVF treatment and reportedly created the world’s first genetically edited babies could face the death penalty in China, his colleagues have warned. He Jiankui was placed under investigation after he released videos, claiming to have used gene-editing technology for seven couples in fertility treatments to provide their children with genetic resistance to HIV infection.
>The Chinese researcher, who used to be an Associate Professor at Southern University of Science and Technology, in Shenzhen, used CRISPR gene-editing technology to modify live embryos. The procedure allegedly modified the CCR5 gene in such a way as to potentially make the offspring resistant to HIV. Instead of destroying the embryos, per research guidelines in China, He Jiankui and associates planted the embryos in surrogate mothers and allowed the pregnancy to follow through, resulting in the birth of twin baby girls. The birth has not been independently confirmed or documented in a peer-reviewed journal, but respectable researchers with access to some of He’s work say in all probability the work was carried through
>He could face both corruption and bribery charges which carry the death penalty in China. Reports say he is being guarded at a state-owned apartment in Shenzhen. After his claims last November, the Chinese government moved in and stopped his research, but not until his patient had given birth to twin girls, Lulu and Nana.
So what is the primary reason China is against this? Circumventing ethics or spooked out their mind?
Designer babies made by the rich
I still think Dengoids should be decapitated btw
Communists with Dengoid characteristics*
A new law aims to stop the booing of China’s national anthem
>“ARISE! ARISE! ARISE! Millions of hearts with one mind,” go the lyrics of China’s national anthem, “The March of the Volunteers”. Yet many people in Hong Kong are not of one mind with China’s government. The territory has been a part of China since Britain handed over the former colony in 1997. But its football fans routinely boo and turn their backs when the Chinese anthem is played. At pro-democracy protests, a few people sometimes even wave the British colonial flag. Some youngsters are also beginning to demand greater independence from China.
>The Communist Party in Beijing has responded as it always does when confronted: by flexing its muscles. It engineered the expulsion of six localists from Legco. It cheered the local government’s decision last year to ban a pro-independence group and expel a British journalist who had had the temerity to invite the group’s leader to speak at an event. Now, at the party’s behest, Hong Kong is preparing to introduce a law that would punish those who deliberately insult the national anthem with up to three years in jail and a stiff fine (see article).
what do you think? should the CPC being doing stuff like this?
==WHY BLACK MAN NO STAN== tier.
Good Night Sparrow Pride
This is just a rewriting of another article it refers to (The Economists does this a lot I've noticed) which states (with no sources) that this law will be voted on on the 23rd. I'll wait until then to decide if it's real or not.
Does anyone else think it's suspicious how the muslim camps stories have toned down?
More imperialist astroturfed "protesting" against the lawful Chinese government.
get these 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧george soros🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 paid actors what they deserve
>inb4 replies not getting the joke
Mfw. People in Hong Kong had less democratic rights under the Crown then under the current PRC’s control.
At this point. China must revive its Confucian, meritocratic values, otherwise consumerism and selfishness will continue to take hold.
Sadly, thanks to the Cultural Revolution and individualism from the West, selfishness and a lack of moral responsibility has taken over China.
they toned down because nobody gave a shit about a state atheist country enforcing the law lol
they're still pretty confucian though
Confucianism is reactionary garbage. Also the Cultural Revolution was a good thing that should not only be praised but replicated in future socialist revolutions.
we shouldnt have to look backwards for a viable social arrangement. It's like saying Europe should go back to Christianity.
It clearly said he violated research ethics, I guess it's just a breach they take very seriously since they let actual humans get born.
I have to see anyone adequately explain to me what's so bad about commodity production ftfy
'freedom of speech just watch what you say'
Hong Kongoids are the Gusanos of the East
They already have
The average Chinese citizens income has much more purchasing power (Much more important then the straight up amount of money each earns) then an American citizens at this point
>China must revive its Confucian … values
Confucianism is superstitious idealism. The Cultural Revolution didn't go far enough imo
Nothing wrong with that. The socialist struggle springs from rational self-interest. Without it, you're left with utopian idealism.
>gusanos of the east
They are much worse than that.
Here is a very comprehensive and fairly recent book on exactly the structure and changes of the Chinese economy. You can see a huge drop off in 1980, which has continued, in the total share of output of SOEs in the economy. Even if SOEs themselves constituted a socialist sector, (which, mind you, the author does believe), then the "socialist" sector is smaller than that of welfare capitalist states. There is a short list in the appendix of the reforms, for any Dengist who wants to say that they just continued what Mao did.
Translations(Via the TSA bitch)
[Golden Lake tonight]
Jinhu County, Huai'an City, Jiangsu Province, has used vaccines that have expired for 6 years for children. Covering the city's 21,000 children under the age of 14.
The parents finally stopped silent and went to the streets to protest. They used to be "staying quietly" and "not talking about state affairs"…
A few special police officers from the Huai'an city, the special police began to hit people.
It is rumored that Li Keqiang went to Jinhu tonight.
[Continuing Events] The fire of the stars can be punished. Under the dictatorship of the CCP, any fire of the stars may ignite the trend of the country. The people of Jinhu County have a fierce conflict with the black dog that came to suppress it. Listen to the angry cry of the masses. At this moment, I sent these tweets with tears…..[Later] At present, Jinhu County has been armed with martial law and the people have been suppressed…
holy fuck this is some next level boot licking
What will happen is that Beijing will decapitate the local officials, let a bunch of new ones take their roles and people will thank them for it. Protest in china is almost directed at local officials, never at the central government or party.
>inb4 people wanting vaccines are actually CIA agents.
The amount of enterprises that are or aren't organised into SOE's does not make or not make a state socialist
What makes a state socialist is when it has achieved a economy for the development of society necessary to bring about communism (Socialism)
>What makes a state socialist is when it has achieved a economy for the development of society necessary to bring about communism (Socialism)
So the USA is Socialist?
The US Goverment unlike china is not a dictatorship of the Proletariate and the economy is not geared towards the purpose of establishing Communism so no
>The US Goverment unlike china is not a dictatorship of the Proletariate and the economy is not geared towards the purpose of establishing Communism so no
The USA is already the number one nation. All that needs to done is for someone who is a Commie to seize control of it. The USA has had like 300 years worth of Capital put into it.
You know, the the USN could be cut by 2/3s and no enemy nation invade, the US Marine cut by half and the US Army by 7/8ths and the Airforce by 1/3rd. So amazingly enough, the US military could survive an explicit hardcore, political purge on a massive scale.
I agree the US would likely have a very easy time transitioning to a Socialist economy and (Once Capitalism has lost its global hegemon) Communism
But that Dosent change the fact that the US in its current state has a capitalist economy and a political system entirely dominated by the capitalist class
So in what way are they socialist? Simply because their party says so?
If you're argument is that they have a communist party in charge and therefore increased production must be "building socialism", the last Congress was only 13.42% workers and farmers.
slightly different figures on page 21 here but the trend is clearly visible
Because the PRC operates politically within the framework of a dictatorship of the Proletariate and economically under a Model of socialism
The article that you linked itself states that the representation of all groups of Chinese society (Including workers and farmers) is increasing in the NPC
It also shows that members of the NPC are still mainly workers and farmers directly and members of the CCP disproving the notion that china is "Governed by oligarchs"
So barely more than 10% is "mainly"? And no the largest demographic that was increasing was party members, which is separate from workers/farmers in that apparently anyone, including Jack Ma, can be one. By that logic, the US Senate is mainly workers and farmers, since Bernie Sanders was a carpenter, and I'm sure you could find at least one other person with a wagie background. Also,
>operates politically within the framework of a dictatorship of the Proletariate and economically under a Model of socialism
Expand on this.
I think Ismail made this point as well, but I'm not really seeing it.
Most people in the People's Congress aren't farmers and workers, and I have yet to see this be the case for local governments.
Now I'm not a Trot, but bureaucrats really do share a different relation to the MoP than workers/farmers, even if they're vital to the operation of the state.
Not that it prevents China from being socialist however.
>According to a report published by the Peking University Marxist Society, canteen staff work up to 14 hours a day, six days a week, with one day off taken as two half-days. According to the report, they are not paid for all the hours they work, and, in at least three canteens, the majority of workers have no social insurance
>Most of them come from the surrounding provinces and moved to Beijing looking for work. They live in group dormitories underground.
>letter cited the report as an example of the society’s contribution to campus life, and referred to its active support for workers’ rights on campus. As well as canteen staff, the PKU Marxists have supported the construction workers who staged a protest in 2015 to demand unpaid wages. But as they noted, it isn’t only university staff who have to deal with unfair labour conditions: ‘If the situation is like this even within the walls of a university, how ruthless must the outside world appear when its mask of compassion and harmony is removed.’
>A group of fifty Marxist student activists were detained in August after demonstrating in support of migrant workers at the Jasic Technology factory in Shenzhen, where there had been protests when several workers were detained and beaten after campaigning to set up a union independent of the All-China Federation of Trade Unions, which has close ties to the Communist Party and to which all unions must be affiliated. The employees complained of poor working conditions and low wages, which weren’t always paid in full; they also said that the company had not paid the proper amount into their social insurance schemes.
>The PKU Marxist Society in the end succeeded in reregistering for the new semester, but when students formed a group to investigate the disappearance of 22 student activists from five cities over one weekend in mid-November, they were called to a meeting with their parents and told they shouldn’t pursue the matter. Friends tell me there has been a discernible difference in the atmosphere on campus since, and security has increased.
>The crackdown on migrant workers and their student allies is not surprising. The China Labour Bulletin, a labour rights organisation based in Hong Kong, lists nearly three thousand instances of collective action taken by workers in China since January 2017.
Theirs literally zero things that make sure that the Chinese officials aren't bought out by the capitalist class, i.e Jack Ma joining the CP and don't transition to communism.
*there's holy shit im illiterate
Why does it seem China trying so hard to undermine European imperialism/capitalism in Africa while ignoring American imperialism in Latin America? Seems like disrupting American super profit extraction should be a higher priority.
>According to the Peking Unoversity Marxist society
Ultra-group acting as unwitting pawns of imperialism
>Hurr durr you can't criticise anything from a marxist perspective if they carry a red flag
You can critique without acting as a blatant tool of Imperial interests in advocating the destruction of the Marxist party
Well, in my country there is a lot of chinese «investment». In mines,mines and also mines.Our biggest buyer of commodities is PRC and if they slow down…we crash. So much that the pro-market president that was deposed didn't go to USA first like a good vassal,but China.
>all who oppose the dengist hellscape are imperialists
How muslims are treated in China?
Is it really that bad or just propaganda?
Muslims are treated fine.
Uiggers are currently in gulags but let's remember how nice gulags were
There is literally no evidence of the "Muh millions of Chinese Muslims thrown into concentration camps" shit
China is doing social imperialism but there is also a lot of western backed fundamentalists.
Are there any leftist uyghur anti-imperialists?
>Socialism with """""Chinese Characteristics"""""
China must reject the capitalist practice of producing shoddy disposable goods, which is wasteful and a disservice to consumers. They should build only for optimal product lifetime, and consider it a form of economic development.
China is a developing country that had 750 million people living in below the international poverty line and over 1 billion people below the lower middle income line less than 30 year ago. Those numbers have reduced 99%.
But that would reduce profits
Is anyone in a maoist org?
what are RCP meetings like?
>what is the pacific ocean
china has pakistan, djibouti, and possibly sri lanka & myanmar in the direction of africa. it has nothing in the other direction
>China will stay committed to advancing reform. Reform is the fundamental driver of China’s development. China will only speed up its market-oriented reforms. We will not slow down the pace of reform, let alone turn back. The Chinese government will continue to streamline administrative approval procedures, provide more efficient services, and slash the time required to start a business, get a permit or go through customs clearance. We will introduce tax cuts on a bigger scale and meaningfully lower fees, including the social security contribution rate. The reform to transform state-owned enterprises (SOEs) into standard companies and joint-stock companies has been basically completed. China’s SOEs, many of which are publicly listed, run their operations in an open and transparent manner. It is entirely up to them to make their own business decisions, and they are responsible for any profits or losses. They do not enjoy any special subsidies.
>Continued efforts will be made to deepen the reform of SOEs and state-owned assets, including mixed-ownership reform in a tiered and category-based manner. Foreign investors are welcome to participate in the reforming and restructuring of Chinese SOEs. We will work for greater transparency in government regulations, ordinances and standards at all levels and higher consistency and predictability in policy execution. A level-playing field will be resolutely enforced. All companies registered in China will receive fair and equal treatment.
how will /marx/ justify this
Made-in-China diamonds ready to rock global market
>Unlike naturally occurring diamonds, which form over the course of billions of years, synthetic diamonds are made in a matter of weeks.
>Chinese companies have mastered the technologies to manufacture them en masse within a short period of time. The products are practically indistinguishable from those mined from earth.
Lmao, De Beers porkies and African warlords on suicide watch!
Isn't that place polluted to high hell?
I want to believe that comrade Jinping has a master plan up his sleeve, and the current presence of capitalism in china is just a smokescreen.
I WANT TO BELIEVE
Can Jin be my wife? thx.
I would also slam the other girl that looks like a dude if she smells nice
If he was it would all but disprove historical materialism.
He does. Xi has made it abundantly clear that he intends to honor China's Marxist-Leninist heritage and begin the shift out of the primary stage of socialism. It will all happen in due time. China needs to use state capitalism for the time being to stay alive and develop in this capitalist-dominated world. Once they become the world's largest economy and the US empire collapses they will finally be in the position to spread Marxism-Leninism and expedite the development of nations all over the world.
I just listened to the episodes of David Harvey's podcast about China yesterday and it really made me think that Deng was necessary for China's development. China has achieved unbelievable progress since the reforms. He explained how China solved the unemployment crisis brought about by the financial collapse by investing a shit ton in construction and infrastructure development. He stated that China used more cement in the years following the 2008 economic crisis alone than the United States did in the past century. Now that China's economy is incredibly advanced and developed, they can finally start looking forward to the socialist future they intended to build since the beginning. Harvey mentioned how China is taking technological and scientific advancement very seriously, especially AI. He also pointed out that the point of AI is to reduce and eliminate the need for labor, which seems to imply that China intends to focus on reducing labor in the future. In the next decade or so, China will likely be in the place that the US is in now; writing the rules of the world economy. Once they occupy that place, they'll be able to spread Marxism-Leninism like the US spreads neoliberalism. Despite the resounding success of Deng's reforms, I really do wish they could have been a decent amount more fair to the workers and kept the influence of the NEPmen Porkies down to a more reasonable extent, but Xi is doing that now. Anyway, I really think Mao's dream of China playing its historical role in the development of socialism is going to come true.
>I just listened to the episodes of David Harvey's podcast
I found it through an email from Richard Wolff's organization.
Listen to "The Significance of China in the World Economy" first, and then the more recent one. He gives a good explanation of the rationale and context of Deng's decision to open up China's economy and talks about the remarkable progress China has made since then.
Deng was a plain criminal, he allied with US imperialism and destroyed the Iron Rice Bowl.
David Harvey is a revisionist retard.
Now hold the fuck on. Wasn't Harvey arguing that Deng was a literal neoliberal in his book about neoliberalism?
I mean not that I expect anything consistent from that confused dude.
I mean, I really wanna believe that China is doing all this stuff with automatisation and labour time reduction to go full socialism but honestly it's a bit idealistic, isn't it? CPC city governeurs built empty apartment buildings for fucks sake to keep their GDP growth up. This housing crisis there contradicts any claim that the CPC cares about material indicators when it comes to growth. Even if Xi is serious about Marxism, it's a dance on the razors edge. What if the next generation after Xi, who is the last generation that got his education in the Mao and early Deng era, will think that socialism is traditional Chinese community values and Han nationalism? Because many Chinese already do that.
Has Xi ever even remotely or faintly try to define what he means by Marxism-Leninism?! Because his book says nothing about it and neither do his speeches. Even the official Chinese party journals don't properly define those terms even in the most basic way.
Deng literally helped the CIA.
The Marx anime is approved by the CPC Propaganda bureaus for promoting Marxism and so far it doesn't neglect any of Marx ideas.
God, I would never think I could use a Chinese anime as a source for this, but I think that it shows to a great extend how Marxist theory is tolerated in China.
I'm not betting on China doing shit for anywhere on Earth other than China's bourgeoisie
Because it would suggest that the political leadership of a country could hold an ideology and protect a set of interests that are incompatible with their mode of production. This may be possible in the short term, as we saw with the Bolsheviks and the NEP, but not for 40 years. Especially when there are plenty of literally bourgeois (as in own businesses and exploit workers) party members, some in positions of leadership or influence. Xi himself is worth hundreds of millions and possibly billions.
US pressuring Canada and Germany to ban Huawei
Canada, like several other countries, is considering banning tech giant Huawei amid fears that future 5G networks could be used for spying by Chinese intelligence.
The US and its allies have already shunned Huawei and is pressuring Canada to do the same for security reasons.
At the same time, China is Canada's second largest trading partner after the United States and Beijing has threatened retaliation if the Chinese tech giant is banned.
Washington seeks to enforce its China policy upon its allies, a German industry union head has said in a rare remark. He warned that conceding to Washington’s demand to ban the Chinese giant Huawei would be harmful for Germany.
The US wants its allies in Europe and elsewhere to ban Huawei from taking part in developing the latest generation of 5G mobile networks on their territories.
The US might “be tempted to use its economic might to enforce its own sanctions on others,” Kempf said, adding that the approach contradicts the very idea of “free, rules-based international trade,” which Europe cherishes.
>forcing western states to buy overpriced shitty hardware just to stave off the inevitable for a few years
I wish i know what its really all about.
Obviously the spying thin is just an excuse otherwise the US wouldn't be trying so hard to enforce a ban everywhere.
Seems like some sort of bully move Trump likes to do. But what for?
Uh, did the CNN say that (chinese politician) is an ebill billionare?
It's about technological superiority: it is the 21st century equivalent of banning musket exports to African states.
The intelligence agencies are lazy fucks. Letting Chinese tech-coms company spread across the world (or any other non-US controlled) make it harder for them to spy, and control foreign flow of information. They can't just ask the CEO of Huawei to put backdoor in their products like they do with Western companies. They aren't exactly lying when they say that it's for US defence, if the US offensive capacity against your country are limited, you're being a danger to their hegemony.
Reddit is going fucking apeshit with anti-chinese bashing because a chinese company invested on their platform, and that apparently means Reddit is supporting chinsese sensorship or something, so better start screeching about Tiananmen, Tibet and Taiwan.
Could also be a deliberate propaganda campaing considering how easy their shitty site is to manipulate. Considering the lies around Huawei and the chinese muslims currently being used to stir anti-China sentiment in the west it's not that far-fetched.
All the articles we're reading now are just the tip of the iceberg. Best brace yourself for the impending cringe of the Third Red Scare.
The anti-China xenophobia on Reddit is absolutely insane. Reddit is such a fucking fascist website.
Yeah it's fucking stupid. Called someone out the other day in the breadtube sub for not having a fucking clue what he was talking about, he admitted it, but still got upvoted because they're all retards and liked the sound of his nonsense.
What irks me the most is the stuff about Taiwan, most of the comments seem oblivious to the fact that the conflict between PRC and ROC is not about about a country named Taiwan wanting indepence from PRC, but both claiming to be the legitimate goverment of all of China. Its like they pretend to be experts on the issue when they know nothing about chinese history.
I don't really see much about Taiwan tbh, just a load of moronic identitarians crying about muh brocialists no matter how unrelated. Some sperg was trying to pin the antics of their retarded radlib comrades wrt AngieSpeaks on the eternal brocialist yesterday - OBSESSED.
Worst are the people that get BTFO and downvote you the moment you've stumped them. Go read a book you little faggot. This is why leftypol was superior because people would get bullied for being total brainlets and other brainlets had no way to back them up if you'd stumped them too.
Sad that I'm pretty dumb by leftypol standards but smarter than like 95% of leftyreddit.
>muh "occupation" of Tibet
Under the seventeen point agreement of 1951, the Tibetan government actually remained in place under China. The aristocracy launched an imperialist backed revolt in 1959 in an attempt to preserve the system forever. After this, the Tibetan government was declared illegal and fully annexed by China, bringing about the end of feudalism, serfdom and theocracy in the region. Serfs were burning their feudal contracts and dancing in the streets.
Tibet was freed with the aid of the People's Liberation Army.
based and redpilled
You guys are on to something here. Bees portal from our nationally owned media firm are running a small, but first page article about Chinese spies in Brussels (Brussels is crawling with Chinese and Russian spies is the title).
I was talking more about reddit morons in general not just breadtube
"Breadtube" is the most cringe shit ever though, it's people like Peter Coffin, NonCompete or ThoughtSlime - all absolutely unbearable!
I mean I'm a Maoist but I'd never join into this radlib propaganda about China or call it a "Hitlerite" dictatorship like some Maoists do on Twitter.
ThoughtSlime annoys me on the basis his shitty talking character is CalArts reject tier but there's like two frames of animation, his voice is annoying too. Not tried anything else, but breadtube just seems to be total shit in general.
Honestly I think I just hate the internet in general at this point.
I'm listing some good subs, and channels, that aren't sectarian(all approaches are flawed)/LARPish, or liberal (polite sage, as this derails the thread a bit)
Three Arrows (Criminally underrated)
I apologize if this gets a bit text wallish, but I need to get this off my back.
We all agree the D.S.A is fucking stupid, and has colonized Chapotraphouse. But identity politics is not bad, per se (think Rainbow coalition). We need to draw a line (i.e find a correct term) between liberal idpol, and uniting the working class, under one banner, yet acknowledging capitalism's tendency to make excuses for exploitation.
When you try to draw a line between the good idpol and the bad idpol but the retards can't tell the difference so you move onto the next space to try to draw a line between the good idpol and the bad idpol but the retards can't tell the difference so you move onto the next space to try to draw a line between the good idpol and the bad idpol but the retards can't tell the difference so you move onto the next space to-
No, reality says that. Nobody is even trying to deny it.
Man bad mouse really looks like a man now. I remember when he looked like a skinny teen twink. Is this what taking the ☭TANKIE☭ pill does to the male body?
Like Chavez family has billions? And Kim family eating human flesh?
Mao was right again:
>Unless you have investigated a problem, you will be deprived of the right to speak on it.
These people unironically parrot cartoonish propaganda. Imagine thinking that the Chinese drove over defenseless crowds of civilians with tanks and turned them into "meat pie" and hosed the remains down the drains, this inbetween murdering mothers clutching their infants and bayonetting teenagers. Imagine reading that sentence and accepting it as fact without thinking even twice about it.
America is hopeless tbh.
There still is the liberal/socdem party in Taiwan that opposes the KMT and advocates more independence.
unironic oriental scientologist cult sucked off by western liberals
rational wiki has a whole list
Russia was a shithole up until the 90's. Gorbachev thought the supermarkets in America were dressed up to be so full of food. Find someone who lived through the communist bullshit and ask them how the food lines were, how empty the stores were. Get first hand knowledge and then think critically about how Socialism works.
Oh, and fuck commie China. Look at the four pests campaign and see what happens when someone is given total power with zero knowledge.
Everything that China has was stolen from another or given to them. There is no discovery or creativity left in the Chinese soul.(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Poor peasants owning centrally heated apartments, having electricity, radios, television sets, seeing toilets and bath tubs for the first time in their lives. Those evil commies.
Actually swerdy throwing out a sizeable portion of what's produced because it's gone out of date is GOOD ACHERLALLY
I hope the PRC shuts reddit down.
That wasn't Gorby that was Yeltsin you dolts...
>Russia was a shithole up until the 90's
Yeah when everyone started dying.
> Gorbachev [sic] thought the supermarkets in America were dressed up to be so full of food.
I mean they basically are? A great deal of that food is thrown out everyday.
Yeah, and it makes the story all the more suspect. Yeltsin obviously sold out the whole economy with glee, and his daughter is very wealthy and if not a billionaire herself at least married into billions. I don't doubt he said some dumb shit in a grocery store, but the notion that he was shocked by what he saw is ridiculous. It's not like Boris Yeltsin had literally never seen, heard of or read about the living conditions of western capitalists nations. He could watch a fucking movie and see a grocery store. He was obviously playing up his astonishment with a random Texas grocery store to ingratiate himself with an American audience.
CAPITALIST RESTORATION CAUSES TENS OF MILLIONS OF EXCESS DEATHS YOU FUCKING PIG
Modern day Russia has gone seventy ranks down in per capita calorie consumption compared to soviet times.
How can you honestly look at the ISIS tier garbage that happened and say the cultural revolution was a good thing? This is why nobody takes maotists seriously.
ChINa iS StilL sOciALisT
Pic related is getting harder and harder.
>Find someone who lived through the communist bullshit
why do libs always say this?
In high school I was an exchange student in a former soviet country and the consensus in my guest family was that it was better. Dad liked being able to go around eastern europe and travel the river don with his army buddies for free. Grandma was a teacher and hates what has become of education. I could go on.
In any event this meme of
>hurr talk to someone from the commie countries… t-they'll set you straight
is such garbage
It was a shithole after 90 fam. Gnp reached 80s status only after 2010. Tens of millions died due to drugs, alchoholism. Crime went out of proportion.
If u had money saved to buy a new car in beginning of 89, that money was worth 2 loafs of bred at the end of the year.
There was a total deterioration of the health system. If you had to go to hospital you had to bring your own syringes, drugs and other medical supplies and equipment. Also you had to pay the doctors in cash because noone was receiving any salaries.
School teachers stopped receiving salaries and parents had to bring cash to schools to pay them for their work.
All public infrastructure went to shit because there was noone maintaining it. The country was worse of than after the civil war in 1924.
Slow your roll there. I've talked to the people personally that lived through it and the consensus was that Communism was the worst thing that has ever happened in their respective country. And this was of last week, not when you were a kid. So yeah, it is a valid argument.(no, it isn't.)
yeah and so have i, and they all have positive views. so do the majority of Russians, Czechs, Hungarians, etc. according to various referendums and polls. the Soviet Union alone had a population of nearly 300 million people, a few gusano types or people who were barely teens during the Gorbachev era aren't enough for me to believe that everyone single person who lived during socialism hated it, especially considering the positive view that most of those hold of it.
also worth mentioning that anyone can make up a story to support their view point. you can say "yes i have talked to many people who say gommunism was the worst thing ever" (funny how in all these anecdotes you anti-communists never provide any information like how old they were when socialism fell in their country, it's always just "this person i totally know said communism killed his whole family and he could never buy *insert x good and/or service* trust me) just as much as i could say "my dad grew up in the USSR and he said literally everything about it was perfect". it doesn't make it true, so unless you can provide some statistical evidence that shows most people have a negative view of socialism in their respective countries you're really not proving anything.
lol I buy bottles of wine with Stalin's face on it from an old Armenian dude who definitely lived through.
Lol, clearly you've never ever met a person from Russia, Ukraine, Belarus etc. Now stop lying.
>gdp per capita
isle of man global superpower 2020
>meanwhile in the real world
HIGH QUALITY POSTING
Guys, what is going on in Xinjiang and Urumqi?
Is it all real or it is just speculation?
Thanks for your attention and for the answers in advance
t.very concerned Muslim
ITS THE MOST ANTI IMPERIALIST FORCE ON EARTH. LIKE CURRENT USA DEFENCE MINISTER SAID "REMEMBER, CHINA, CHINA AND CHINA". THE PORKY FEARS THE DENGIST.
It's text-book US agitprop with no concrete evidence beside testimonies from US founded NGOs.
Fuck muslims though
Do people actually think China is socialist? From my perspective they've realized that state capitalism is the most effective form of capitalism and merely hide behind the politically "communist" state in order to keep the proletariat in check. Am I wrong in this?
I'm not baiting by the way, legitimately curious
Nah, that's right
Comparing China's situation to NEP is plain retarded. NEP permitted foreign investment and market competition between worker-owned enterprises, but private employment was strictly limited and industry wasn't privatized. Meaning that a real bourgeoisie class did not form and when they started rolling it back, the only opposition could come from rural kulaks and small store owners. Meanwhile China has literal billionaires. Even if the CPC decided to construct socialism tomorrow, they'd have to do it through bloody class war (and I doubt there is political will for it). China fucked up, there's no other way about it. It's been 40 years.
-some anons work I stole
Chinese billionates are in the CPC. They simply give away their billions when said
China is imperialist, it’s Germany to America’s UK in 1914.
>implying mad, "Asian work ethic (sucking up), based family fascism", confusionists, are revolutionary in any way
Lao Tzu could have been amazing, if he wasn't spooky as shit, and you should google him.
People calling Chinese investment in Africa neo-colonialism are doing a lot of heavy lifting towards erasing the actual genocidal horror of colonialism.
I read a research paper the other day that was the source of a recently propagandized statistic about how Chinese have positive feelings towards the new social credit *system* (not score), and I was disturbed the massive category error the author had made where they insisted to put Sesame Credit and social credit under the same name.
For those who don't know, Sesame Credit is an opt-in rewards program managed by Alibaba that has no legal basis and cannot punish you in any way, it is simply design to encourage you to use Alibaba services for discounts. It's a shoppers rewards card.
The social credit system is a "system" for transparently and effectively enforcing laws that already exist. So in one famous example, fare evasion on a train can get you banned from riding trains for a certain number of days. You do not lose points on a score, nor do you get punished in other ways. You just get put on the train blacklist. That IS social credit, it is not AI-driven invasive social control, or a technologic panopticon. It's enforcing the rules, which exist for good reasons, and it no wonder Chinese think it's a good idea.
The reason this is problematic is becuase there is no effort by most people tasked with informing USians about China that cares what the social credit system is, instead they come with this one two setup: There is a black mirror-esque score in China, and most Chinese support it. It's incredibly fertile ground for racist theories about the oriental mind to flourish.
This meeting was pretty forcefully denied by Beijing btw.
Netflix just released some over-the-top anti-China propaganda with a bunch of falsehoods about various not-banned things being banned, and pictures of xi drenched in a blood red filter while random scary words float across the screen. A Jon Oliver special is coming soon I expect. The topic is going to be either Social Credit or Xinjiang, I'll put money on it.
have you guys ever read the joy luck club?
For those who can't see it says Deng Xiaoping and other Chinese Communist were arrested in the Cultural Revolution. Honestly, Mao should've just saved the time and sent the red guard after him.
Lmao kill yourself
No. I will rather send hem to de-relegionize camp
Are you suggesting that China isn’t extracting profits from its investments in Africa?
I think it’s naive to expect that social credit will simply just be used for mundane shit like train fare. Think about the concept from a Marxist perspective.
>The social credit system is a "system" for transparently and effectively enforcing laws
In other words it’s a tool of law and order, but the proper class analysis begs the question: Whose law? Whose order? China is a bourgeois state, and as such this is bourgeois law and bourgeois order. If you think this won’t be used to undermine organized labour in China, crack down on strikes, on anti-revisionists, and on worker’s movements of all types.
Well I think you hit the nail on the head. It is naive to think that "law" will be used just for train fare. The few people who actually know what social credit is often promote dystopian visions of it because they think all Chinese law is illegitimate, and hate the idea of the enforcement of law becoming more effective. This recent yellow panic has been triggered partly because Chinese regulations in all sectors; in health, labor, food safety, corruption, data privacy and yes, censorship, have started to be seriously enforced. But it's not a score.
that would be imperialism, not colonialism m8.
>How can you honestly look at the ISIS tier garbage that happened and say the cultural revolution was a good thing?
There is nothing wrong with destroying reactionary and bourgeois culture. Reactionary ideology will linger even with changes material conditions. Only vulgar materialists think otherwise. From Mao and Pol Pot to Hoxha, they have all realized the necessity of waging ideological war against remnants of the past.
I would say they are quantitative differences, as according to the Chinese government
>China's private sector has made an important contribution to economic growth, head of the country's industry and commerce federation said Tuesday.
>The sector now contributes more than 60 percent of China's GDP growth and brings in over half of China's fiscal revenue
>The private economy is also playing a stronger role in China's job creation and innovation drive by providing over 80 percent of jobs and contributing more than 70 percent of technological innovation and new products in the country, according to Gao.
>He said that last year, more than 90 percent of new jobs were created by private businesses.
>At the end of 2017, there were 65.79 million individually-owned businesses and 27.26 million private enterprises in China, which employed some 340 million people.
Although I just got an email looking for a skype interview for a job there, so idk. If I go there I'll post back in this thread, although of course anecdotal evidence is secondary
People who criticize China solely for it's market economy are ofc totally braindead and ignorant of Marxism. EVERY worker's state will have to undergo a DoTP period where it is forced to interact on the world market, before all it's trade partners too become communist. It is hard to overstate how much the leftcoms & Trots have totally ruined the Western left with this line of thinking for the past 100 years.
With that said, there's no way the CPC didn't have the intention to enrich themselves with the reforms under Deng. They didn't even have to go down the NEP route, they could have just made serious political reforms to ensure millionaires had no way to have seats in government or influence it at all. But there was no political will to keep the party's proletarian character, clearly.
>Peter Joseph of The Zeitgeist Movement praises China's state capitalism for its efficiency
>silicone valley STEM labor aristocrats support state capitalism
better than 90s libertarianism
? he hates them
he supports cybersyn / cybernetic socialism
you couldn't be further off. he despises workerism and thinks all labour must be automated asap. also he believes borders should be abolished. he's even more of an internationalist than you, mr. fourth international flag-bearing trotskyite
1989 tiananmen square massacre
someone praising chinese state capitalism for its superior efficiency is now "utopianism"?