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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)

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Ya'll need Mises.

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Welcome to /liberty/, your board for the discussion of politics, society, news, and the human condition without authoritarianism (fascism, full-on communism, etc). The board's philosophy is simple - welcome all discussion from non-authoritarian viewpoints, light moderation, and most importantly of all fun.

We've seen SJWs, we've seen the far right, and we've seen the far left and we've said no, stop this madness - the moralizing authoritarians who seek to control society and shape it to their whims and test out their vague theories would enslave us just to feel that society was better. At /liberty/ we believe we would be best served by sticking to the path we've been on for so long, that of personal liberty.


See the image - if you make the cut, you'll be right at home on /liberty/. Even if you are an authoritarian (far left or far right), you're welcome to join us - just don't expect to be taken seriously.


1. Global Rules uber alles.

2. Spamming can result in a short ban. In the event of raids, discussion threads will be stickied to weather the storm.

3. Rules are lame, don't make me make more and don't whine for more moderation unless it is absolutely necessary.

4. This board has an actual topic and it's not fetish porn. Content that is clearly beyond the pale of the board's topic (fetish porn, clop, gore, etc) will be removed. If you need these things, they are a mere three clicks away; you can even get there one-handed.

Board Policy Vis-a-vis…

1. "Shitposting"

There is no such thing as shitposting. It's a vague and subjective concept that boils down to "irreverent posts or things I don't like," and therefore makes a bad yardstick for moderation. If you want discussion without fun, may I suggest another board?

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Help to compile a list of resources (preferably free) about non-authoritarian political thought. If you want to see something added, make a thread to discuss adding things to this list and I'll edit it in here if it's good.

Our list so far:
Please note that inclusion on this list is not an endorsement of a work. What you do with this information is your choice.

The Online Library of Liberty
Find hundreds of writings, books, essays, etc. on classical liberal thought.

Mises Institute
Find dozens of free books, audiobooks, and lectures on libertarian thought from an Austrian school perspective.

The Anarchist Library
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Organizations of Interest
Inclusion on the list is not endorsement. Organizations are listed in no particular order.

The Fire - Foundation for Individual Rights in Education
These people are your friends - they fight for freedom! FIRE is a non-partisan individual rights advocacy group that seeks to defend freedom of speech, legal equality, due process, religious liberty, and sanctity of conscience on American college and university campuses.
Website: http://www.thefire.org/
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheFIREorg

American Enterprise Institute
The AEI is a nonpartisan public policy research institute. Everything from American politics to international events and beyond.
Website: https://www.aei.org/
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/AEIVideos

Learn Liberty
A project of the Institute for Humane Studies, a libertarian non-profit. Learn about economics, public policy, and more.
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Why are wages rising with productivity?

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He was shilling for credit unions and such before itt, all while shitting on other private organizations because they are "command economy" and "slavery". Other than that, regulatory capture is indeed a problem and there's nothing wrong with calling it out, unless you try to redefine it as anything else, just like juggling definitions and moving goalposts is a common leftist tactic. To make things worse, these unoins have become even remotely effective only because they are a lot less regulated than private companies, often given gibs just to please leftist leaches, all at the cost of those who have things to do other than bitch and whine while being a worthless parasite, which makes him a hypocrite on many more levels than even leftists usually are.


Thankfully, anyone can read.


The actual left position on unions is actually pretty negative.

To get right to the point - they're capitalist defense corporations, and as such, are subject to the same corruption pressures as all things within this, and even remotely similarly orchestrated, systems of organization. tl;dr, they will ALL quickly not only not serve their customers (amounting to fraud fairly quickly and without much care for quibbling reasonable doubt, IMO), nor the community, nor the outfit, nor anyone, really… but Bob from HR got an eight-ball out of it.

The fraud plus usually a fuckload of cost-externalizing which is not even realized as a gain in an embezzler's pocket is a large part of why we're not fond, and republicanism shares the same problem - if you can get elected to get your salary, the next step is to sell other peoples' shit below any sane or functional cost. It's straight-up "how do we pareto optimize the worst possible outcome" structure, and there are some traditional economic proofs that suggests that the buyer loses more than they gain; it's basically an "I'll pay you $100 in gold-backed certificates to throw the gold off the boat" scenario.

An actual union of the workers, as opposed to a Union(tm) "of" the workers, is far more desireable. They're fucking pirates, basically.

Getting the upper-tier npcs turned on usually involves the history of the AFL-CIO, any of the billions of times the union has pushed company agenda while the workers tell them both no, and the phrase "yellow unions," or just pointing out that it's a capitalist company with labor as alleged client, and turning them on to actual left unions.

Meanwhile, since it's an ancap defense company, usually with actual enforced monopoly power, the two major factors are whether the workers earn more with "unioncorp" embezzlement bloat, and whether some outside criminal actor has set up a "fucked either way" controlled scenario. Regarding the latter, both the left and the center have some quite skilled terrorists, with the left having more experience in the intelligence and international crisis management industry.

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>The actual left position on unions is actually pretty negative.

The left position will be whatever comfortable for the current leftist policy the shill for, the actual "left" position or consistency of their worldview doesn't matter, if just for the reason they don't know it themselves. Just as leftism itself - a tool that grows on ignorance and stupidity, fueled by jealousy and failure, designed not to reach something but to deprave others of everything to feel less miserable.

>since it's an ancap defense company, usually with actual enforced monopoly power

Oh, you're one of them. Fuck off to your containment board, illiterate degenerate. There's no place for you here.



>Fuck off to your containment board, illiterate degenerate. There's no place for you here.

See the sticky? This is my containment board.

In this case - US-wise, at least - the NLRB exists literally to prevent a union and mandate false unions under this model. ANYTHING that claims sole jurisdiction over borders of land, however… well.

Regardless, it is still a private corporation claiming to sell defense for a price. ANY union - real, or in this case, private corporation - is pretty center-of-the-road ancap theory, however.

"Lemme form a PDO for my PDA, and what if the doggie consents though?"



>See the sticky?

It doesn't mean shit. Kill yourself, scum.

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tranhumanism thread

it is related to libertarianism because transhumanism gives freedom and liberty

so are you taking smart drugs or anything?

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YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.



How do you equate memory and personality to the phenomenon of experience? The two former things are factual data, clearly distinct from consciousness itself. If you were to somehow lose every bit of memory and personality you would still be able to experience.

>one claiming there is an extra element to the brain, an element of mysticism and magic

I never once claimed that.

>To argue as if your claim has already been proven true

The claim that individuals are able to experience phenomena? I know empirically that that is true; I am experiencing phenomena right now. If you could explain to me how it is that the inert data of memory, personality, etc, are able to produce the phenomenon of experience, it would be greatly appreciated.


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People who are not quantum physicists should not use quantum physics to justify their arguments. Even people trained in the field, especially people trained in the field, should be wary of doing so, as they know the degree to which quantum theory is obtained through brute-force mathematics, with little conceptual basis behind the math. It isn't a subject anyone knows all that much about, in other words, so an amateur skimming the Wikipedia page of it, then making sweeping declarations about how the world works, is the most supreme arrogance. You know that picture of the ancapball reading a book titled "Basic Economics," and there's a commieball smugly smirking at him while reading a book titled "Advanced Economics" upside down?" The creator of that video is very much like the latter.

Specifically, the problem with this argument and others like it is the treatment of the act of observing as this mystical thing that must be treated differently from everything else; the reality is that it's a physical action like any other. To observe something, whether with a detector or the human eye, necessitates firing an EM wave at it to gather information, which bounces off the object being observed at your detector. An EM wave hitting something will interact with it, and because subatomic particles have so little mass, any EM waves that reflects off of them will have a major effect on either its position or trajectory (which one depends on the frequency of the wave). That's all it is, just a physical thing interacting with another physical thing, not a paradigm-shifting defeat of objective reality.

If you really want to challenge the materialists, you should stop playing by their rules. Reject scientism and blind empiricism, in favor of a priori arguments that hold true regardless of the evidence. By using these God of the gaps arguments, you make a tacit admission that the materialist or determinist position would be true, if only they had the proper data.



Dogs do, maybe marine mammals.




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I was reading through Patrick Little's (a NeetSoc who ran for Senate last year in California and got 1% of the vote) platform and I saw this

>Nationalize Google, Facebook, Twitter, and all other natural monopolies in the IT industry.

>natural monopolies such as Google, Facebook


Also this guy wants to give reparations to blacks LOL


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Oh shit, your post has singularly destroyed our entire board. Guess we have to become Communists now.



wtf I love communism now




>no argument



>Randian 10IQ child shitposting


You first, subhuman nigger



you never provided any evidence for your statement and you implied i care about rand. ive never even read her that's how much i care

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"The Anglo is immunized against all dangers: one may call him a scoundrel, parasite, swindler, profiteer, it all runs off him like water off a raincoat. But call him an individualist and you will be astonished at how he recoils, how injured he is …"


File: a99d72bfdd186a2⋯.jpg (88.02 KB, 805x1320, 161:264, 1550539455617.jpg)

what was that?


"The NEETsoc is immunized against all dangers: one may call him a scoundrel, parasite, swindler, profiteer, it all runs off him like water off a raincoat. But call him an leftist and you will be astonished at how he recoils, how injured he is …"



Is this some cosplay from that Individualist comic?



Is that a new gender sign on his staff?

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Is UBI (universal basic income) as bad as everyone makes it out to be?

Studies show it would grow the US economy by 2.5 trillion

It would do that in many ways. Corporations just keep lots of money sitting around. If that wealth could be taxed or distributed to people who weren't as rich like the working class. When the working class or the middle class get the money they would actually spend the money creating economic growth. They spend money in lots of sectors creating jobs, put more money into circulation, etc. UBI would also increase the overall happiness of the country.

So how would UBI be bad if it was distributed to the working and middle classes?

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>It was proposed by libertarians in the first place as an interim period to get rid of welfare/as a better alternative to welfare

What an absolutely abhorrent and uneducated post. Is this a /leftypol/ meme they're trying to spread or something? Who could have come up with such utterly retarded claim and assert it to libertarians, of all people.



>It was proposed by libertarians in the first place as an interim period to get rid of welfare/as a better alternative to welfare

No, big-brained centrists who think they've found a "third alternative" and the occasional mainstream politician are the ones who shill for it. Libertarians have done nothing but point out the myriad flaws in UBI retardation, same as they do for any other welfare scheme. Rothbard himself did nothing but stress the inadequacies of a basic income in For a New Liberty, Man, Economy and State, and various other works.



Wasn't it Rothbard or Friedman that introduced the concept of the negative income tax as a version of UBI. Not trying to dismiss your claims I just want to learn more.



I believe Friedman was one of the first to propose it, yes. But, while Friedman is mostly a free-market economist, and while he is an advocate for small-'l' liberty, ideologically speaking he isn't a libertarian–he doesn't share much intellectual ancestry with Mises, Rothbard, or Hayek. He reaches similar conclusions to them, but from a very different direction, coming from the Chicago school of economic thought, which emphasizes empirical data and quantitative explanation. The Austrians in contrast use a priori reasoning to reach their conclusions.



>Point to where I said "cease all economic activity


It's even sentence one. Might not have been you, it IS the direct chain AND THE FUCKING TOPIC OF THAT SUBTHREAD, so quit posting in shit you don't read.

In case you're retarded : what KIND of dollar they are trading for is completely fucking irrelevant, honestly. As such - yup, "you" claimed they would cease all economic activity.

> it is…impossible to read

Nor…mally, I would say "that's your problem right there," possibly coupling this with the retardation which gives rise to those five words.

In this case, "you" typed that shit. So I'm presuming the retardation only goes into the processes which make you think dishonesty is a functional form of bet.

>And for several hundred years at least economic systems have repeatedly collapsed

Well! Congrats on accidentally, but successfully positing that ancap land enclosure is in fact absolute economic phail.

You'll probably have a bitch-fit that you said that while you're instead trying to spam "passable" reply, but amusingly, rent versus production IS actually economics 101 - and the entire topic of Bastiat's broken windows, which is the argument that commented on your otherwise-fascinating npcredistributionspam.txt synthesis.

Have a nice day!

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Is the TSA just going to be around forever now? Is there any agorist way around this agency? In two decades from now, will I still see nude scanners in an airport?

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It's sad. My dad works in the airline industry and he told me when I was younger how security was different before 9/11. Hell I can barely remember some of the security before 9/11 despite being born before it.



It really is sad, I remember pre-TSA travel, and it really was simple. The lives of the next generation will be worse than mine.



> Is there any agorist way around this agency?

I mean, I'm moderately familiar with stealth technology if you want to create a series of illegalist airports with unliscenced pilots, but that opens up a whole lot of other stresses and issues.



That just wouldn't be profitable, I'd reckon. Too high profile to be unnoticed and most of your customers would be high risk (middle to low tier criminals) because normalfags wouldn't want to use it.



It's actually fairly inexpensive compared to the plane itself, and a bush-pilot shadow airport system is pretty much "any meadow that's remote enough."

The big issue comes when you start flying stealth aircraft across borders, which I'm pretty sure ends up a series of pound-me-in-the-ass felonies which makes the average renditioned terrorist look like a pot charge in a decrim state. Also, collision detection without radar presence kind of sucks.

I assume that about all this could ever be worthwhile for is huge-shipment drug cargo. A few subs, some stealth aircraft…. otherwise, you're probably better off doing the "liscensed bush pilot in the meadow" thing and keeping it, well, gray. Because when a few hundred aircraft that don't show up on radar DO get detected crossing a border, we can assume the response is likely going to be, erm, "inappropriately excessive."

Government elitism does not like civilian tech.

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Do you want to talk with other ancaps and bully minarchists someplace other than online, without roving /leftypol/ shitposters to disrupt everything? Would you like to do it with people who dress neatly and can string a sentence together? Of course you do! So why not get a collection of /liberty/ posters together to go to Mises University this summer? I went last year and I can say with certainty I had an excellent time, not just with the lectures but the chance to talk with people about various subjects relating to Austrian economics, natural law, and liberty. If you're a uni student, undergrad or graduate, you're basically guaranteed a scholarship, so if you get yourself there you won't have to pay for anything. Anyone up for it?

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>The "Dear Leader" concept only really exists in DPR-Korea

Pic unrelated.



>El presidente / genrilisimo

Those aren't socialist titles


>Americans don't have pictures / statues for Washington in D.C

>The French don't have a statue of napoleon

>germans don't have a huge statue to bismark


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At first I was like:

>communist countries don't have cults of personalities!

But then I was like:

>i-it's ok if we have them, other countries have them too!



>Those aren't socialist titles

They are just not exclusively to socialism



Don't move the goalposts you Marxist filth, you said you had no cult of personalty, now you're saying it's okay to have one because other people do. There's also a gulf of difference between a flag or statue, and interring the corpse of Dear Leader in a gas-purged glass box for the nation's viewing pleasure. Even the other cults of personality haven't gone that far.

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Lets have a thread for editing, memes, webms, art requests and delivers, etc.

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Were you bullied by cute girls at school or something? What do you have against them, faggot?


File: affc912f2afbecc⋯.png (84.04 KB, 657x600, 219:200, 1544406472950.png)


>tfw never bullied by cute girls


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i was bullied by a girl once so i told the teacher on her and she got in trouble


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Is that… a gender-bent Pinochet? Hnnnnnng.

>Colour scheme, hair style, and defining facial features are most important.

Well, we know we want black/goldenrod…seeing as Grace-chan is already blonde, maybe we would give /liberty/chan curly black locks, and amber eyes. Probably no way to stick a Rothbard bowtie on her without her looking like a transvestite, unfortunately…but I think we could do sunglasses, in the style of the ones on the happy ancap ball.

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is he an atheist?

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Religion gets material results like an education gets material results.


File: aa5e59bd209bf0d⋯.jpg (55.62 KB, 600x704, 75:88, 317.jpg)




religion can make people be "posessed"



> is he an atheist?

He's mentioned in the past that both he and Rothbard were agnostics (which helped them get along very quickly). That's not to say he has no appreciation for the results of religion within society but ultimately it's clear that he himself doesn't really believe in religion.


he's making random appearances in my dreams, bros. nothing specific, i just see him walking past by me, or sitting at a table of a cafe, standing on a corner, it's kind of weird.

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I was a libertarian from the time I discovered rom paul in 2004. I was 14, and hated bush and hated republicans. Then when i around 25 an i started to think about the media and trump and seeing how badly they lied. I then realized this was because all the media companies are owned by seven companies. Including many of your “local news” Broadcast, they are all owned by a small group of people. Then I realize that i as a libertarian could not make a argument for regulating the media, or banks, or anything really. Thats when started down the path of republicanism. I know the party is garbage, but the founding ideas are better then libertarianism.

This thread is for libertarians who became republicans to discuss. or for libertarians to tell me why im wrong. Cuz ive been having a faith crisis of sorts.

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>The average individual doesn’t and will likely never have the resources to compete with ABC, or google

Yeah that's why you get a loan from the bank to start of your business. Plus in a free market when companies get too big Dis-economies of scale could take place.

>So i have yet to figure out a way besides government intervention to fix it. Ive been thinking about it on an off for two years now.

It's already been figured out. Just pick up a book like Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell



>Monopolies cannot exist without government enforcement of copyright laws, so they can't be retarded in that aspect.

yes they are retarded because of the fact that monopolies do in fact exist in the real world. When you play these stupid ivory tower imagination time games and live in a world of pure theory. The reality is that monopolies exist and you need to break them up if you dont want them to exist.


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>the fact that monopolies do in fact exist in the real world

So do the governments, retard.

>The reality is that monopolies exist and you need to break them up if you dont want them to exist.

>because i say so and government agency told me that

Just choke on a shotgun, you retarded leftist.


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>no arguments provided

wtf i love socialism now


>I used to love freedom, but now I'm more than willing to give it away

We've had this thread too many times and it's always fucking dumb. If you know anything about anything you should know that you can't have a small, constrained republic. The Founders vision failed, and they were enlightened, powerful men. The only way to keep any freedom is to keep all of it. Anything less and you'll end up enslaved soon enough. That's not to mention the utter immorality of endorsing any kind of state.

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Old one is auto-saging. Basic questions about /liberty/, socialist "gotchas" masquerading as basic questions, etc., go here. If you have a "what about ____" question you'd like to ask that you're really, really sure will stump everyone this time, do a quick look over this list: (http://archive.is/bbtHt) before you post–chances are, someone has asked that question before, and there's already an answer or answers available to you.

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Even if you assume it's 100% impossible for the act to be traced back to McDonald's (how does everyone in the world know that Russian troops were in Crimea if they had no insignia?), the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Sending mercenaries to attack each other is much more expensive than just making a better product, and the ramifications of such an act (even if secret, it can't be secret forever) would have immediate consequences for McDonald's. Not only would distributors and suppliers blacklist them, their insurance rates would skyrocket, as they've just proven themselves to be extremely high-risk clients. Banks would be less likely to provide them loans, for a similar reason. And unlike the government, that other roving gang of thieves, a criminal gang has no aura of legitimacy around it, which might cause people to hesitate in acting against it the way they might a rogue government, and unlike a government, such a criminal gang wouldn't have the infrastructure in place to start their protection racket, and would have to start from scratch. Finally, one other thing:

>What if a gang of bandits got together, started small taking money from people they killed, seize the property of the people they killed, then hire a private military to further assist them.

I think it's very telling that the worst possible criticism of free enterprise people think of is essentially, "what if a government forms."



Damn okay. What if the rich banded together and attempted to form a police state


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It's still debatable whether the juice would be worth the squeeze–setting up a 'police state' is extraordinarily difficult, time-consuming, and expensive, and due to the fact that you'll be facing blacklists and armed resistance the whole time, even if you succeed in setting up a police state it won't be profitable until at least a generation afterwards, when people stop actively resisting and start paying their tax. And even then, the only way you even have a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding is if all the rich banded together, which brings us to the second contention: game theory and the Prisoner's Dilemma. Cartels and conspiracies are inherently unstable entities, due to the fact that the individual payoff for any one person betraying his co-conspirators and not following the plan is so much higher than the payoff he would receive from colluding. The greater the number of entities involved in the conspiracy, the stronger the incentive is to defect. And once any one person defects, everyone else will hurry to defect as quickly as possible in turn, as they seek to minimize their losses. Since your suggestion by its very nature requires a large number of aspiring plutocrats to conspire together to succeed, it will very quickly suffer the same fate of all such conspiracies.


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I want to buy bitcoin while it's still cheap, but I'm kinda broke. Will the economy get completely raped by (((central planners))) in the next few months or do I still have some time to earn some money?



>buy bitcoin while it's still cheap

kind of late on this one aren't you?

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Why do you call it ancap when anarchy is capitalistic by nature? Is it because the word anarchy has been sorely tainted by kike rule?

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Reminder that your socialist memes are weak. Learn proper English.


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"Primitive Communism" as Marx described didn't literally mean "This is what communism looked like / will look like" he simply used some societies (Pre-Colombian exchange Meso/north America mainly) of a MORE communal system that existed prior to feudalism and then capitalism


File: 4983b820a6d3dc7⋯.jpg (50.12 KB, 643x600, 643:600, langlys.jpg)


All communism is primitive lol, wtf are you talking about, son?



Secretly a good poster.


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Can Americans copy anything from how the yellow jackets organized to reclaim some freedom for themselves?

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>to dismantle the government, you need to get into government

>good people don't want to get into the government because they are good and government is evil


Yellow Jackets organize in the hive and are funded by Soros.


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What about the 'porch method?' You stand out on your porch at 6 p.m. with your gun, and if you see your neighbor out with his, you come and join him. You keep repeating this until one day, if there's enough people, you go to the city hall…



I didn't say "government power" I said power. Neither did I comment about goodness or badness. I was just saying people don't like to dismantle the apparatus which empowers them.



but they are agaisnt EU

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